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Tyroth
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PostSubject: Healers hps   Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:23 am

I was looking around on some forums to get an idea of what is a descent hps for my gearscore.
I am around 5,2k gs - and hit around 2k hps ( atleast in ony10, not sure in icc will found out tonight )
Anyone has any idea if 2k hps is good, or do I slack with such a hps ?
Can't find anything about it on the wow-europe forums etc.

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Ekai
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:42 pm

I think you shouldn't looking at that.

Druids will have higher hps - but also higher overhealing, shamans whit CH aswell.

Well for healers, are not to compare whit it, and i hate it when they do.

Aslong everyone does their job, and the dps/tanks/other healers walk away from the ''aoe, fire - do not walk there area's!'' And healers keeps the tanks and the dps alive, no one would ever complain.

If people do not walk away from the ''aoe, fire - do not walk there area's!'' and the healers can heal that and does that, its a very good job.

All im saying so far - Healers aren't slacking xD Otherwise we wouldn't came so far. Dreamwalker is a little boss where the healers get into the spot lights Very Happy


healers - Good job Razz
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BeefJerkey
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:20 am

HPS is VERY case sensitive.

- What spec are you healing in?
- What encounter are you healing?

In AoE heavy encounters, as a Holy priest you should have relatively high HPS as compared to, let's say, a paladin of the same GS. Disc priests will almost always have a lower hps, as many addons that records hps do not take into account the amount of damage you shield/prevent.

Really, there are no numbers for hps. Some parties simply require less healing then others. t's a point I have been trying to make for DPS for ages; you can't just look at DPS and draw a conclusion (Melee DPS on, for example, Putricide, is constantly walking, so their DPS will be lower then range DPS, which can stay where they are for most of the encounter).

In party situations (5-mans), if the party is alive, your hps is good enough. In raid situations, a priest will usualy have one of the lowest hps, but very little overhealing. On all, as long as you're not more then 0.5K below the next best hps (with the same GS), and have the least overheal, you're doing just fine. Don't expect to be able to catch up with the droods insane "3 HoT's on every raid-member", or the paladin's endless crits, or the shaman's 4people-chainheals. When it comes to the healing-domain, priests are not the top honchos anymore. They're hybrids.

[/rant off]
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Ekai
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:26 pm

Well thanks for the info - nice to see your theory about it, which is interesting and very correct Very Happy <3

Hopefully Tyroth is hereby very pleased, but he will be - me thinks xD
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Tyroth
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:39 pm

Yeh thnx for info. Well just keep people alive is what counts after all.
And I think our healers ( including me ) suceed into that most of the time Smile

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BeefJerkey
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:02 pm

As an additional note, I have noticed there is a group of people saying that priests are "the best AoE healers". The reason most people give; Prayer of Healing.

Now mind, I have played a priest in Vanilla, TBC and WotLK, and while I agree that in 5-mans this spell is pretty amazing and give's us an advantage over, let's say, the shammy, who will always need to cast 2 spells (4man chainheal) to heal all 5 party members, Prayer of Healing is very, very weak in raid situations. Reason; it heals the -party-.

Party, not raid. So if you cast it on a member in group 1, group 1 get's healed. On group 2, group 2 get's healed.

So where most AoE-heals (like Chain Heal or Wildgrowth) can cross groups, PoH can't. And what's more; other AoE heals are either REAL AoE heals (healing everyone within a certain area), or they are 'smart' heals, meaning they heal the target's with the lowest health (chain heal jumps from target to nearby target with lowest health, Wild Growth searches for 4 target's with the lowest health in the area of the targeted player).

So, in short;
Priests get raped in AoE situations by all classes except for paladin (and even pallies can catch up with Beacon of Light & Glyph of Holy Light)
Priests get raped in single-target situations by all classes except shamans (and even then, hardly. Most shaman's will be able to catch up)
Priests get pseudo-raped by all classes in mana regen (biggest flaw is it only regens ourselves. same problem with palas, thoguh)

[shakes a fist at Blizzard, leaves the stage]

PS: yes, I'm stupidly passionate about this stuff. It's the same with Warriors; Blizzard has put -so- much hate on these classes, and they have never really recovered.

Nor have I Evil or Very Mad
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Lotusol
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:18 pm

first off saying priest is a bad aoe healer is just bs, they are one of the top. circle of healing, renew, poh and ofc pom (witch no other healer can match)

regarding hps, yes its fight dependant. but then again 2k hps is rather low in any encounter nowadays. in the worst aoe fights i can keep up to 10k hps but not for a very long time b4 i run oom, 6-7k can i keep through a fight. and for dw it should be possible to reach 15k hps Smile (spam gh)

regarding dps, yes also fight dependant, but rly i do 8-10k dps on my fury warrior on putricide Smile yes it got better gear than most here but it shows that its possible. but again i guess blizz made it into cosideration that meele do more dps when they can stand still nuking to make up for the running, so in a fight with alot of running meele shouldnt be very far behind. just learn the encounters and learn how to maximize ur dps, learn when u will benefit the most of ur cds, (like dont blow ur cds b4 a phase change on putri DUH).

so summary, eveything depends on fight, some fights makes sone classes shine while other encounters make other classes shine. but u can always tell a good player from a bad player no matter encounter Smile
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BeefJerkey
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:40 pm

Deat Lotusol,

Circle of Healing is great, but requires a deep spec into 1 of the 2 healing trees of the priest.

Renew isn't an AoE heal, and can't compare to other HoT's.

I'm pretty sure I made clear why Prayer of Healing fails compared to all other AoE heals.

Prayer of Mending is awesome, but I can't count it as an AoE heal. With 5 charges, it requires 5 sources of damage to be viable. So in an AoE situation, it takes 5 pulses of AoE damage for 5 people to get healed.

Anyone who says the priest is the top of AoE healing either never played a priest, or only played a priest and liked it very much.

As for the rest... those are pretty arbritary numbers. I have a friend with a 277-geared mage and a 264-geared resto drood. Trust me, numbers are nothing. Things such as DPS and HPS are to case dependent to draw any sort of conclusion from someone else's claims. The 0.5K-below rule is a guideline.
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Lotusol
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:54 pm

i never said priest was the top, i said it was among the top aoe healers. and yes holy is a aoe healing specc so u need that for aoe healing. disc is not rly smth for aoe healing. renew aint a aoe healing spell, yes i agree on that. but then druid hots aint aoe healing either Smile
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BeefJerkey
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:02 am

Ehm, there only are 4 healing classes in the game.

Shamans beat priests because of their spammable smart 4man-heal, with a larger range & better modifiers.

The druid's Wild Growth, being a HoT, gains endlessly more from spellpower then the instant CoH.

Glyph of Holy Light turns Holy Light into an amazing AoE ability. Beacon of Light helps, too.

Also, here is some food for thought; all other healing classes get all their healing modifiers in 1 talent tree, while the priest needs to choose. You can't say the priest is a good AoE healer when the choice to AoE heal means you have to give up a full talent tree full of goodies.

The thing about the drood HoTs is that he has so bloody many. The raw healing power of those HoTs, and the ability to apply them to different targets, beats what a priest can do with just renew.
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Lotusol
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:30 pm

so basicly ur saying priest is a shit healer ?
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BeefJerkey
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:46 pm

No, I'm not saying that. Priests have some awesome tools at their disposal; PW:Shield is an amazing migatory-effect, and between Renew, Flash Heal, Greater Heal and Circle of Healing, they have a heal for every situation. Like I pointed out before, they are the hybrids of the healing-domain. In any 10-man raid, I would prefer to have 1priest & 1other healer, simply because the healer will fill those roles the other class can't.

I am saying, however, that in the case of 3 healers, I'd rather have a shaman+paladin+druid. The fourth & fifth healers would be priests. When you need 6 healers, I'd rather have 2shamans+2paladins+2druids. It's all about balancing the roles.

Don't get me wrong. Priests aren't bad healers. They fulfill all roles, just not as good as each of the specialised healers do, making them secondary-healers in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:38 pm

i dont think u have ever tryed playing a priest or u have just played with shit priests, like for instance ensidia uses 2/5 healers in theyr 25 man raid as priests. in my wiev id rather have a priest druid hpala in 3 healers. and a ele shammy for bl etc. and prayer of mending, u dont know how good that spell is. like on putricide, keeps healing on and on. im not saying priest is a better healer than others, im just saying they are better than ur saying in ur post.

and calling priest a hybrid healing class is also smth i would call wrong, they got 2 healing trees yes, but they are kinda completly different and rely on completly different stuff. if u would go and check out those talents, maybe u would change ur mind.
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BeefJerkey
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:44 pm

Can't really think of anything to say I haven't said already...

Again, I never said Prayer of Healing is bad. It is awesome. But it is not an AoE heal, as it only heals one target per AoE; which was my point.

Priest/Drood/Pally/Shaman is great for buffs etc. But you get the same buffs with SPriest, RDrood, HPally, RShammy. Bloodlust, Kings, MotW, Fort/Spirit.

As for the Hybrid part... the fact they have two healing trees kinda makes my point. Disc is about Migation & single target heals, but still has several AoEs. The Holy tree has a lot of AoE potential, but still has migation and single target heals. The fact it has both makes it a hybrid, in my eyes at least.

I have played a priest in Vanilla, TBC and WotLK. I've raided a lot in all three of them. I understand how you might think I believe priests are bad healers; I don't. I think they are excelent, but that they have a role to fulfill. As far as this role goes... we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:49 am

i think u dont rly know what ur talking about.
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Tyroth
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:39 pm

Tyroth = shit healer

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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:53 pm

Well, just wait until you join a guild raid again and we shall see how imba your hps is Very Happy
As for the priests are aoe healers "argument" I would say that priests are good at aoe healing but it's rather a burst in which a druid would far surpass what a priest can do over a long fight. This is ofc due to just hotting loads of targets and wild growth... Paladins are good at tank healing, shammys are in between, priests can have tank and aoe healing while druids are pretty crap when they have to focus large healing spells on a single target over time... Well, correct me if I'm wrong Smile
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Ekai
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:53 am

oh wait it's Tyroth huh?

Extremly shit hea... l... e ... r ...

w-h-a-t- ?
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:58 pm

I must dissagree with Beef on this topic.
And i can proove that holy priests is infact one of the best AOE healers in the game EXACTLY coz the COH and POH spells!

@Beef - ur info is outdated - and you have no idea of the current status of the things imo - no offence ofc!

COH and POH can be grpwise spells - but u need to keep in mind that COH is instant and properly talanted and glyphed (more healing + hot on the target) - POH is amazing source of healing!
Most of the players would point that POH is slow casting spell - well - stack haste and watch POH beating Chuck Noris !!!

So in general - for the time a shaman cast 1 chain - a priest cast POH + COH and this = WIN
Actualy only a Druid can do more healing than a priest - tho it would be an Overheal most of it ...

Once we are inside the Cataclysm - things will change.
Overheal will be a really bad thing to do - so ppl with heads will cut the Overheal to the minimum - and then ull see the real strenght of the priest.

^^
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PostSubject: Re: Healers hps   Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:04 am

Oh good lord...

I am pretty sure this discussion is dead. Has been, too, for quite some time now. We SERIOUSLY need to get some more topics in here so people stop necroing this one. For the final time;

Stop assuming I know nothing of playing a priest. It went from amusing to irritating pretty quickly.

Now, Gateto; My knowledge of the priest isn't the problem here, your inability to read my arguments is. I ALWAYS said holy priests were excelent AoE healers. They are NOT, however, the best. CoH is excelent, but has a CD and quite a hefty mana cost. As an instant cast, it has less benefit from +spellpower making it, in my opinion, less desirable than something with a casting time.

Prayer of Healing, as I pointed out SO many times by now, is excelent in 5 mans, but lacks in comparison to Chain Heal since Chain Heal is a CLEVER heal, where PoH is not. Secondly, attaching a HoT to PoH is ONLY effective if you plan to cast 1 PoH, then wait till the HoT wares of before you cast one again. HoT renewing is one of the BASICS of effective healing; if you renew a HoT halfway through it's duation, you essentialy wasted half a HoT.

PS: the slow casting speed on PoH has never really been an issue. Although I do believe that stacking spell haste further than 1s Flash Heals is pointless... it depends largely on playstyle.

Also, please stop using the fact you can talent and glyph for a spell as an argument for it being a great spell... Using that logic, Rune Tap would be the most awesomenest heal in the game. 10% heal party wide, +22% heal for yourself? Woop-ee!

Finally, you talk about Cata. So yeah, my data isn't outdated, your is... pre-dated? How about we leave any speculations concerning Cata healing untill we're actualy healing in Cata, yes?

Now... the horse died, was reincarnated, got shot, was burried, was reanimated, and has now been thrown into the chipper... also, the Ghostbusters are on standbye in case a ghost comes by. You don't have to agree with with me. heck, you don't even have to like me. But for the love of GOD, stop acting like I am ignorant. If you INSIST on make a point, please do so by going into my arguments rather than endlessly repeating why 'MY PWIEST IS AWESEOMENEST AWESOME THAT HE'S AWESOME'. I don't consider priests to be the best at any field of healing (not counting disc priests and their ability to prevent damage). Live with it, or build a solid argument to convince me otherwise.

Is it possible that perhaps, just maybe, the person who is not licking his priest on the computer screen has a slightly clearer outlook on the matter?

/shameless and somewhat annoyed rant off.

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